r/ChainsawMan • u/Ficnkle • Jul 18 '23
Is Fujimoto the most consistent shonen mangaka at writing women? Discussion
Some people might think it is an overstatement, but I believe Fujimoto is, at the very least, one of the top 3 shonen authors when it comes to writing female characters, and if we're talking about the new generation, he is unquestionably the best. He has consistently excelled in portraying women across all his works:
Fire Punch — Judah Chainsaw Man Part 1 — Makima, Power, Himeno, Reze, Quanxi, and Kobeni Chainsaw Man Part 2 — Asa alone has the potential to be the best-written female character in Shonen, and Yoru, Fami, and Nayuta are also very promising. We might even see more interesting female characters in the future. Goodbye Eri, Look Back — I know it might not be fair to include his one-shots, but they just further demonstrate how skilled he is at writing female characters overall.
And before anyone tell me to read more manga I know there are other shonen like Gintama, Fairy Tail, Claymore, FMA, Magi, Black Clover, One Piece, JJBA, Soul Eater and they all have good female characters but I still stand by what I said. Fujimoto is the GOAT 🐐
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u/singh853 Jul 18 '23
I don’t disagree. You could make the argument that his female characters are more interesting than his male ones. And the way he’s written Asa seems to resonate with young female readers. So yeah, hats off to Fujimoto.
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u/Glitchy13 Jul 18 '23
maybe impersonating his fake little sister has made him able to write women better
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u/Anregni Jul 18 '23
Never thought that this sentence was even possible yet here we are
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u/AnomalousAnomalies Jul 18 '23
babe wake up new sentence dropped
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u/Yaekult Jul 18 '23
Actual Fiend
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u/amitaish Jul 18 '23
Call th devil hunter!
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u/HowDyaDu Jul 18 '23
Holy Hybrid
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u/__Schneizel__ Jul 18 '23
What? Ootl can someone explain?
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u/Glitchy13 Jul 18 '23
On twitter Fujimoto pretends to be his own little sister who doesn’t exist when he tweets.
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u/__Schneizel__ Jul 18 '23
Maybe he is a woman from the inside?
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u/CouncilmanRickPrime Jul 18 '23
Nah. He can't have an incestuous relationship with his sister because he doesn't have a sister so he made one up.
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u/thepantryraid_ Jul 18 '23
Asa is too relatable.. even as a 25 year old woman
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u/savagebunnies Jul 18 '23
Especially her monologue about being afraid of both solitude and companionship really hits too close to home.
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u/LeonWyvern Jul 18 '23
Tbh I think Asa is pretty relatable for a lot of people cause of how normal she is
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u/AlexCuomo Jul 18 '23
Fire Punch also has Neneto which is basically Kobeni the pre sequel
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u/Incestuous_Alfred Jul 18 '23
Neneto grows up to be a boss in the Fire Punch cult and takes over after Sun dies though.
CSM part 3: Age of Kobeni?
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u/AlexCuomo Jul 18 '23
Is the cult even a thing after Sun and Agni's deaths? I thought she just led a group of generally normal survivor til her final days, Fire Punch ending is insane :22157:
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u/HairyKraken Jul 18 '23
a friend said in a convo "i finished Fire punch", i answered "damn ! how do you feel ?", he said "i dont know"
and i never better understood someone that in this moment.
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u/inkysquabble Jul 18 '23
i need him to make a buff woman
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u/TheToolbox101 Jul 18 '23
i need to him to make buff characters in general (other than violence)
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u/inkysquabble Jul 18 '23
definitely makes me feel better than the series isnt filled with buff men and skinny women, lol, skinny equality
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u/iorgicha Jul 18 '23
I wouldn't even call them skinny. They are just your average person who does physical activities daily. Denji is not in the gym 5 hours a day but he is still running, fighting and swinging chainsaws around. His body type is realistic for the things he does, unlike most other shonen characters that lifted a dumbbell/did some sit ups and push ups and became bodybuilders overnight.
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u/augustobmoura Jul 18 '23
I think there's a difference between pre-hybrid and post Pochita merge on Denji's body. I think other people also pointed it out. In the manga, pre-Pochita Denji is a lot skinnier (maybe because of the hunger and poverty) while post merge ir gets a lot buffier, even kinda brawny
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u/iorgicha Jul 18 '23
It's exactly due to him being malnourished. He barely ate a piece of bread a day. Back then he was active too but without food he would not have build any muscle. Now that he eats three meals a day, he is starting to build up his physic.
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u/GuyNekologist Jul 19 '23
He already made several beefy dudes in Fire Punch and that's a post-apocalyptic setting where they barely have enough food. Even the scrawny San turned into a hunk. I hope we atleast get more of young Kishibe because I think he's the only other character that kinda looked athletic.
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u/voiddude123 Jul 18 '23
Quanxi is buff by standard, just her frame is small, unless you're talking about JJBA tier buff
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u/HowDyaDu Jul 18 '23
Street Fighter's Marisa is a well-written JJBA tier buff woman, although she isn't written by Fujimoto.
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u/Rbespinosa13 Jul 18 '23
I’ll never forget how quickly the community fell in love with this character when she got released. Like street fighter has never been a stranger to muscly women (Chun’s thighs), but seeing a woman that would make Arnold Schwarzenegger blush was something else
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u/Striking_War Jul 18 '23
How to make great female characters: step 1: be a masochist
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u/Kingturboturtle13 Jul 18 '23
Fujimoto-sensei on his way to explain how being pushed over on his bike in college lead him to write the single best piece of polyamorous representation in any piece of media I've ever consumed
(Abridged Rin Tohsaka is a decent second place tho)
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u/AshenHaemonculus Jul 18 '23
It's nuts how Fujimoto drew a naked five-woman lesbian monster girl orgy as a splash page and not only is it somewhat tasteful and artistic but it's legitimately important to the plot and extremely effective way characterization to explain Quanxi's personality almost instantly.
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u/NatWith6ts Jul 18 '23 edited Jul 18 '23
I definitely think it's good to bring up Goodbye Eri in this. That manga was driven entirely by the female characters, plus it didn't leave them as love objects for the protagonist. They were both shown to be idealized by the male protagonist, but then also shown to be complex characters outside of the male gaze of the camera. Literally my favorite manga.
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u/LlambdaLlama Jul 18 '23
I recently bought it when I promised myself to get it physically and avoid all spoilers. What a great read and beautiful manga, really one of the few books I’ll care of and take around with me wherever I call home..
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u/JCris01 Reze enthusiast Jul 18 '23
I think so as well. All the popular manga artists don’t really create their female characters as well as Fujimoto imo.
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u/tinhtinh Jul 18 '23
I'm looking at Gege who started well enough but after Shibuya has gone downhill, since we still don't know what happened to Nobara, Maki has seen better days but got a huge power boost and has done nothing in a while and every new female character has been pretty crap while most of the male ones have been fan favourites.
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u/Rbespinosa13 Jul 18 '23
Might wanna put some spoiler tags there. Agree on the first point though. Gege really hasn’t handled that situation well, but I think Maki’s issue is a symptom of a big issue JJK currently has: character bloat. Like there are so many characters it’s hard for all of them to get the attention they get. Even Yuta hasn’t had much to do outside of his colony fights
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u/Random_Useless_Tips Jul 18 '23
Character bloat is a common issue in shonen in general.
This is why Chainsaw Man has the excellent method regularly killing its cast to reduce the number of active characters!
(This is not actually good writing advice; do not kill characters for no reason)
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u/Rbespinosa13 Jul 18 '23
Lol true. In chainsaw man it does make sense though. It’s a world where demons grow stronger based on fear. Of course people are going to get wiped out quickly. While some characters are essentially fodder in the story, the main group at least gets amazing stories and arcs.
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u/ShinjiLight Jul 18 '23
No wonder fujimoto kills off the fan favourites, everything makes sense now :22168:
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u/NenBE4ST Jul 18 '23
i dont think its even a female character issue its just character bloat like the other person said as well as weird pacing and structuring of the culling games arc.
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u/tinhtinh Jul 18 '23
Looking at the recent female characters he's introduced, they were all simps for Megumi, Getwo and Sukuna. But compared to characters like Higuruma, Kashimo, Hikari and Takaba who got a few chapters to fight and develop, there's a big contrast.
Even Maki's arc came out of nowhere, made little difference and she fought the same person twice.
And then halfway through just seems like hes abandoned the Culling Game and everyone is shelved.
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u/AshenHaemonculus Jul 18 '23
Gege's desire to write strong female characters is at war with his raging homosexuality and for a very long time the homosexuality has been winning.
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u/Hokkateru Jul 18 '23 edited Jul 18 '23
Fullmetal is another good example of popular manga that has powerful female characters
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u/KatakAfrika Jul 18 '23
Berserk have really good girl characters as well, it's just that there are lots of rape encounters 😭
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u/bentheechidna Jul 18 '23
Don’t compare the two. Berserk writes women with a fuck ton of nuance.
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u/jfbwhitt Jul 18 '23
I agree. I think in a magazine as sought after as Shonen Jump many artists feel pressured to use their women for fan service, which makes it so you can’t take them seriously.
Fujimoto does write some sexualized characters like Makima, but he does a really good job of actually fitting their “fan-service” actions into their actual motives.
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u/Erst09 Jul 18 '23
Dude created the best female antagonist in recent manga history and is on his way to make the best female shonen protagonist, those aren’t high bars to surpass by any means but still the man knows how to create female characters that are interesting without the need of heavy fanservice.
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u/Icy-Top1496 Jul 18 '23
Jolyne is a very high bar to meet though
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u/Erst09 Jul 18 '23
Forgot JoJo but agree we need more awesome shonen leading ladies, Asa and Momo (Dandadan) are pretty good examples of how to write good female leads.
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u/Incestuous_Alfred Jul 18 '23
I don't read that much shonen so I mostly know of badly written female manga character by osmosis and, besides the fact that most notable women in CSM are please-step-on-me dominant types, I'd just have said that he actually fleshes them out and gives them proper personalities. Even Quanxi, whose primary functions are tbh looking hot and looking cool, has some nuance to her in how she cares for the fiends. It mostly just strikes me as generally good writing, which Fujimoto's characters tend to enjoy. I fear I'm taking this for granted though.
A small side note: outside of Quanxi, Fujimoto does not do a lot of fanservice. And, honestly, the infamous lesbian orgy spread is still a cut or two above the 'tee-hee just a little peeking in the bathhouse' kind of stuff tbh. At least Quanxi isn't being sexually harassed.
I have the impression of having heard a lot of complaining about female characters in Naruto, but I never watched Naruto so, again, osmosis.
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u/Kingturboturtle13 Jul 18 '23
I feel like Fujimoto just knows how to do fanservice well. Enthusiastically consentual acts being observed by the reader is good for readers that enjoy it, while not being creepy to readers that don't. When I watch a show with a bathroom peeping scene with a family member, I have to accept the weird looks and "why do you watch this stuff". If I show a family member chainsaw man I get an "oh" but not "why do you like this", the simple fact that everyone is consenting to the activities present does miles for the reception
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u/Incestuous_Alfred Jul 18 '23
Makes a difference to me too. I don't care that much for fanservice in general, but the worst reaction something like the lesbian orgy spread would get from me is indifference, whereas the best I could hope for with some 'sexy' sexual harassment is mildly disappointed sighing and hoping that it'll be quick.
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u/AshenHaemonculus Jul 18 '23
It's funny how up until Quanxi's orgy, arguably the most sexually charged scene in the manga is Makima biting Denji's finger where they both remain fully clothed the entire time and it's still one of THE sexiest scenes in the entire manga.
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u/kunell Jul 18 '23
Himeno sexually assaulting denji tho.
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u/Incestuous_Alfred Jul 18 '23
Nothing about Himeno's interactions with Denji were fanservice unless you have a puke fetish though.
That would be the disconcerting thing. Depicting sexual assault in and of itself isn't a problem. It becomes (categorically more) offensive and questionable if its being used to titillate the audience though.
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u/AshenHaemonculus Jul 18 '23
I think the anime struck a really good balance when adapting that scene of showing how conflicted Denji felt, by demonstrating that both 1) she's a very attractive woman who would be great in bed and any teenage boy would be tempted by AND 2) neither of them can consent because he's a minor and she's drunk so it's not a situation Denji really wants to be in. It's a very nuanced depiction of sexuality in media that illustrates a very complex situation fairly tastefully, and this from a show where a guy grows chainsaws out of his face because his dog became a heart transplant.
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u/Kingturboturtle13 Jul 18 '23
That's the weirdest thing about trying to pitch csm to anyone. You explain all the nuanced stuff about what it is to be human and self-love and they immediately go "wait and this is the manga about a boy made of chainsaws?"
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u/Ficnkle Jul 18 '23
It's true that female characters are usually underutilized in most shonen but most of the time people just use Naruto/MHA as examples of this and then project these animes onto the entire genre. Female character are mostly average but they are held to a higher standard than male characters, people will trash on a series for having plain female characters while ignoring that the male characters aren't any better.
Also, people discredit Fairy Tail for the fan service, but its female cast is better written than the male cast.
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u/Longjumping-Prior-90 Jul 18 '23
people will trash on a series for having plain female characters while ignoring that the male characters aren't any better.
My best guess at this is because guys are meant to be more "simpler" and when it's shounen a lot of people just love their overpowered protag mowing everything down in their way eventually.
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u/genericsn Jul 18 '23
It's not that guys are meant to be simpler, but rather "what teens and young men want" out of a manga is pretty well established. Shoujo manga also have very basic, overused tropes and archetypes as well. They are just different ones. This isn't restricted to age group either since adult manga very much have their own flavor distinct tropes and archetypes.
The entire medium is pretty simplistic in order to catch audiences early on. Most manga is still pulp media, so it's pretty straightforward out the gate. It doesn't have the luxury of luring audiences in with a slow burn and well-developed chapters to flesh out a deep story and world. At least not in the beginning. So in the case of shonen, lots of writers just fall back on "Hot girls, sex objects, romantic options, etc." real quick for female characters and "cool, you want to be him, strong, relatable in some ways, etc." for the male characters. ie- Your dream girl that wants you and the guy you want everyone to see you as.
In short: Lots of writers know what hooks their audience, but then aren't really good at going beyond that. Either out of their own biases or just a skill diff. Because it happens with male characters too, but they're desirable archetypes of a different flavor.
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u/AshenHaemonculus Jul 18 '23
I think you could make the argument that Quanxi's introductory orgy is actually legitimate characterization and not just fanservice. In a setting where Devils hate and feed on mankind and even Fiends see humans as food first, entertainment second, friends last, introducing a character by showing her naked in bed and sexually dominating FOUR of them at once is a pretty effective way of demonstrating that she's a world-class badass.
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u/Freenore Jul 18 '23
The most significant thing is that the female cast isn't objectified to fulfill the male desire and written for male gaze. They're human with their own background and motives, and their dignity isn't taken away just for 'comedy'.
Nor are they sexualised merely for laughs, Fairy Tail is a serious offender in this, I can't imagine the amount of times Lucy has been stripped naked or was scantily dresses for no reason other than 'fanservice'. Or Tamaki in Fire Force, it's just not funny.
I hope this continues and shonen manga decides to actually write girls and women with seriousness. The only worry I have is that this is premature celebration because I remember writing something similar for Jujutsu Kaisen, and anybody who reads manga now knows that Akutami-san has dropped the ball so hard on that front.
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u/AdBest9254 Jul 18 '23 edited Jul 18 '23
Fujimoto publically stated that he likes women that bully him sooooo….. different kinda male gaze i guess lol
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u/MachoBanchou Jul 18 '23
anybody who reads manga now knows that Akutami-san has dropped the ball so hard on that front.
I'm a big JJK fan and I see this sentiment that Gege's female characters aren't very good a lot. I think people have overreacted on both ends. The initial praise they got in the beginning was premature because people didn't realize at the time that Gege would be more ruthless than expected with all of his characters, including the women. Now the hate they get is, in my opinion, equally overblown.
The majority of Gege's female characters are very likeable and really cool in action, just like the males, without seeming particularly delicate like they do in other stories. Nobara, Yuki, Maki, Uro, and Mei Mei are all badass characters and I think they should be given that credit. Uro is a great example too because she was completely naked during her big fight and yet she's still exclusively remembered for how cool her powers were and her dialogue with Yuta. Im not saying she or any of the others I listed are ground breaking. They're cool and they're extremely capable in battle without any of the usual drawbacks like fan service or forced romance. Also, Maki arguably has one of the most satisfying character arcs in the story so far, and that's pretty great. I'd argue that in any series as dedicated to non-stop action as JJK, this is perfectly fine for supporting characters.
Chainsawman is unique because unlike a lot of other shonen, the majority of its relevant characters are women. Denji, Aki, Kishibe, and Yoshida are really the only relevant male characters. This isn't a criticism. I'm just saying CSM basically just shifted the focus. I can't think of an action story with a perfectly balanced cast. They always seem to heavily favor male or female.
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u/britishconquest88 Jul 18 '23
I think that (regarding the last paragraph) chainsaw man's cast would've been perfect if the male characters (specifically kishibe and katana man) had some more attention .
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u/ZeusByrd Jul 18 '23
I think this is actually a completely valid take. I’m not gonna pretend like I’ve read every Shonen manga ever. But even compared to AoT, JJK, or FMA, I think CSM stands out. AoT, jjk, and FMA all get a lot of praise for having a well written female cast, and I kind barely agree with that. They all are of the few Shonen series that meet the bare minimum. They’re female characters are generally plot relevant, are multifaceted and not just walking sex objects. JJk, AoT and FMA have female characters that are actual characters. But CSM female characters are well written, well incorporated, and often stand out members of the cast, and there’s a lot of them. Like when talking about Fujimoto’s female cast, we’re literally talking about roughly half, or more of the characters he’s written at all.
Like Fujimoto’s women are just the well written standard that he writes into all of his characters, incorporated into the story and world just as much as the rest of the cast. His women don’t feel like an exception to the rule, but as much a part of the standard of quality as anything else in his portfolio.
And yeah, as far as I know, he’s the only one to do this. Which is kinda sad tbh, but in glad his stuff is hopefully pushing the genre forward in that regard.
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u/Striking_War Jul 18 '23
I think Historia from AoT is an excellent female character, her character arc was probably one of the best in the series. Can't say the same about Mikasa or Annie though...
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u/Red_Naxela_ Jul 18 '23
Historia is a weird case. She had an amazing arc and basically became the co-protagonist for a bit, but after that was done, she was shoved to the side and used as a prop in Eren’s story, especially in the ending.
MAJOR SPOILERS
Holy shit she gets shafted in the ending. She spends the entire arc pregnant off-screen and is stuck giving birth during the finale. We literally see Ymir come back via paths magic, and then we see the Survey Corps reunite with their fallen comrades one last time also because of paths magic. And yet, Historia, who’s greatest regret in life is losing Ymir, doesn’t get to see her again. She’s literally the only Survey Corps member who doesn’t get Paths ghost closure
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u/Striking_War Jul 18 '23
Yeah I honestly don't know what made Iseyama decide to sideline one of his strongest characters. Like she's the only female character who wasn't in a romantic relationship that would diminish her role in the story, and as a well beloved queen, she wouldn't be fed to Zeke by the government that easily, even without getting pregnant. Even if you have to get her pregnant, she still could've given way more to do than just be stuck in a flashback. Though tbf, I feel like she wasn't the only one that suffered from this, everyone of the main cast besides Eren feel shafted towards the end of the manga sonehow. I feel like they coulda been done more with
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u/Red_Naxela_ Jul 18 '23
It’s like as soon as we got to the basement reveal and the timeskip, he put all of his chips into conflict and worldbuilding and the characters suffered as a result. Don’t get me wrong, there was a lot of good stuff post-timeskip, but it was missing a lot of the intrigue and character writing that the series used to have.
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u/Icy-Top1496 Jul 18 '23 edited Jul 18 '23
Well to answer your question, characters were never really the focus of aot . The story of aot was always intense and tight packed leaving little time to focus on individual characters. Characters get focus if story demands it . This might be a very unconventional style of story writing and some might say it bad writing too but this is what made the story extremely gripping and compelling . Just ask yourself would you have liked aot I'd it broke from its tight plot to focus on characters more ? Contrary to popular belief , characters and plot has a type of opposing relationship . Focus on Characters breaks the flow of story and focus on story scraps away time from characters . Game of thrones season 1 to 4 were amazing but you can't deny that the parts where they were introducing characters and their backgrounds and building up stuffs was a slog to go through . Arcane and edgerunners didn't have much time to focus that much on its characters but the plot did its magic.
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u/ZeusByrd Jul 18 '23
I do agree with this, and I think it’s incredible that AoT has so many well written characters despite being a plot driven narrative. But regardless we’re still discussing the quality of the female cast. Don’t get me wrong I LOVE AoT, it’s one of my favorite shows or even stories of all time, but I was just saying how it falls short here.
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u/ZeusByrd Jul 18 '23
I should also mention I’m anime only for AoT so there may be stuff I’m missing. But I think one of the things I’m trying to say is for example with AoT it’s female cast is also really small. The majority of the primary characters in the story are men. And that doesn’t make those characters worse per se, or the show worse, but when appraising a series female cast, I have a hard time saying that the show has a strong female cast, when said cast is only a few handful of characters, who are proportionally few. I love CSM female cast because they’re all plot relevant, have some degree of autonomy (or struggle with it, as per the themes of the story), and mostly because they THROW HANDS. But also because they don’t add the substance of CSM they are the substance of it, just as much as the male cast is.
There’s other things too, and I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, just clarifying my point, that it’s less about the quality of specific characters but their presence in the cast as whole.
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u/Striking_War Jul 18 '23
Huh, I never thought AoT female cast was small. I do think there are less female chars with plot relevance than males though. Like Gabie was another good one, Ymir (fake) as well, Hange was good before the timeskip, Pieck is cool I guess. But yeah, with csm, almost every female is dominant in their own arc.
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u/VCnonymous Jul 18 '23
This is severely undermining how great the female characters in fma are. The women in csm are amazing, but Izumi Curtis and Olivier Armstrong are much better both as characters and in the story's narrative. That's not even taking into consideration Winry, Hawkeye, Mei Chang, etc. Though tbf the mangaka is a woman so it's a given that she'd be much better in writing female characters than most male authors.
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u/Boredwitch Jul 18 '23
Yeah, FMA is the one I disagree with. I certainly wouldn’t say the female characters there aren’t as good or better than CSM ones
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u/ArmoredAngel444 Jul 18 '23
He def has good relationships with women in his life I’ll say that. He writes from a very real place.
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u/efaefabanefa Jul 18 '23
can't believe they have different boob sizes... that's unseen of
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u/Disaster_Star_150 Jul 18 '23
In all seriousness it’s really refreshing to see women drawn with different individual body shapes in a manga/anime series. It helps make them feel more like real people who could exist since not everyone has the same body type in real life either.
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u/efaefabanefa Jul 18 '23 edited Jul 18 '23
I think one thing I have an issue with is their lack of muscle. Yeah they're slim and fit, but so much of the ladies are fighters and it doesn't show !!! Especially Kobeni since she's such a good fighter without the use of a devi
Edit: Wrong character mentioned oops
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u/Disaster_Star_150 Jul 18 '23
Yeah, I can agree with you there. That’s actually something I really appreciate about JoJo’s since in it the women who fight very physically like Jolyne and Ermes in part 6 are depicted as being very muscular.
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u/_-ZORO-_ Jul 18 '23
Jolyne isn’t muscular at the start but slowly though out the story she gets more and more muscular
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u/Turner_Down Jul 18 '23
At the start she wasn’t a fighter, just an innocent m teenage girl who gets seduced by a swindler, so it makes sense that she isn’t buff at first. I actually really like how we can visually see her getting stronger as she learns to use her Stand and toughens up to prison life.
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u/_-ZORO-_ Jul 18 '23
I didnt say its a bad thing, her body develops and she develops mentally, By the time of the cmoon arc she is really muscular
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u/Striking_War Jul 18 '23
Maybe he just sucks at drawing muscles and doesn't want the ladies to look bad
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u/AshenHaemonculus Jul 18 '23
Looking at you, Oda. The fact that the women in One Piece all have unique personalities and are never just used as love interests makes them all looking the same even more inexcusable.
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u/Incestuous_Alfred Jul 18 '23
Fujimoto was expelled from the Designers of Female Characters in Animanga guild after drawing an adult woman with breasts smaller than a kaiju's.
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u/Joker_Ren_Amamiya Jul 18 '23
i think Hideaki Sorachi (Gintama) does a good job with its female characters
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u/Zer_ed Jul 18 '23
I’ve heard that in Japan Gintama has/had a sizeable female following for precisely this reason.
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u/voiddude123 Jul 18 '23
The best part about his writing is not objectifying female characters, like yeah we get fan service every now and then but the reality is every single one of his characters is very realistic despite being in an unrealistic world. Every single one has their own will, goals and objectives and is treated equally instead of being eye candy and doing nothing to the plot 90% of the time. All of this is thanks to that one girl who knocked over his bike btw.
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u/raeinbows Jul 18 '23
One thing that i can say is that this series felt like a breathe of fresh air. The female cast is definitely a huge factor for me loving it.
CSM, Bluelock, and Oshi no Ko are my favorite new animes that Ive watch in the past year. They each surprised me in their own way. I never expected to fall in love with them the way I have.
Thank you Fujimoto!
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u/MollyGoRound Jul 18 '23
I think Fujimoto is definitely due some measured praise for their portrayal of women in Shonen. Words like "most" and "best" are words I'm generally uncomfortable with, but when it comes to Shonen, they are MILES above the baseline two-beachballs-glued-to-a-mop standard.
They remind me a lot of the Wachowskis' filmography in a lot of ways. Weird. Technically ambitious. But sensitive and human and deeply sympathetic.
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u/Outrageous_Gene_7652 Jul 18 '23
Well there is also Togashi, but HunterXHunter's female cast is smaller than the make cast. But whoever is there is great.
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u/Zevvaz Jul 18 '23
He is the kind of man who likes to be dominated by a woman afterall. That means he put woman in a higher position than most men do
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u/andson-r Jul 18 '23
He just like me fr fr
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u/LegendRaptor080 Jul 18 '23
Fujimoto’s made quite a few characters that happen to be female. The good kind of female characters.
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Jul 18 '23
I'd say you're right, especially count just how many women he does does and how consistently well.
If I were to have any point where he could improve, it would be to make gender actually matter, ironically enough. Fujimoto's men and women to my eye are basically indistinguishable, which in many ways, is what makes him so good.
I'd point to GRR Martin, ironically enough, as someone who can do extremely good female characters of all types that you could not just rewrite as men and vice versa.
I will give Fujimoto serious props for Togata though. His gender identity's inclusion felt a bit random (like everything else in Fire Punch), but damned if it wasn't well executed.
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u/Ficnkle Jul 18 '23
Oh I get your point but I would say that Asa, Himeno, Kobeni, Quanxi, Reze all feel like female characters to me.
The only characters that I get the vibe that "happen to be female" are Santa, Nayuta, Yoru and Fami.
Makima and Power are a bit ambiguous, they do feel like they happen to be women but they also have a lot of female traits.
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u/Incestuous_Alfred Jul 18 '23
"Happen to be women" feels kinda right for Power, somehow. Power is more like a weird goblin than a human. Why does she bother putting on breast pads? Does she feel attraction for anyone? How much does she care about her own gender? Was she at all bothered about letting Denji touch her boobs or have intimate physical contact with her? Does Power even bother distinguishing between male and female, or are human scum undeserving of this consideration?
Power's genuine friendship with Aki and Denji definitely showed that she was human, so to speak, but she was still kinda alien imo, and by her own choice. To what degree did Power's contempt for human etiquette and social norms (like not throwing your veggies at the wall) extend to the human understanding of gender, if at all?
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u/Longjumping-Prior-90 Jul 18 '23
Off the top of my head theory but maybe the breast pads was an attempt to mimic Makima perhaps?
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u/omyrubbernen Jul 18 '23
Power being female doesn't really impact her as a human, but it does impact her role in the story with Denji wanting to fondle her boobs. The whole bat devil arc wouldn't have happened and Denji and Power probably wouldn't have grown closer if the blood devil had taken over a male body.
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u/Nobody5464 Jul 18 '23
See I disagree with Makima. She is designed to be both an abusive relationship partner figure and an abusive mother figure to Denji and neither of those themes or relationships would work to improve the story without her femininity. Makima uses her femininity to her advantage to bolster her control of others. one of her go to moves to control pawns is to make them love Her so she can better manipulate them and her knowledge and Use of her own sexuality is a major part of her character
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u/justjolden Jul 18 '23
nayuta fami and yoru being women are because the horsemen are horsewomen which i find hilarious
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u/omyrubbernen Jul 18 '23
I wouldn't say Togata was random. He's meant to match the theme of appearances and the fake acts people put on defining them. It applies to Togata, Agni, Judah, and even Tom Cruise.
Agni finds out Togata is actually a man, but still instinctively says that he sees Togata as a big sister. And when Agni corrects to big brother, Togata says big sister is fine and then makes a face like he's dead inside.
Everyone who knows Agni isn't really a god keeps fueling the fire of the cult because it's necessary for the good of the village. And when Agni is living with the girls, Tena knew that he's Fire Punch, but she's still not only fine with him living there, but begs him not to leave.
Agni knows Judah isn't Luna, but decides to keep pretending because he'd prefer to have a fake sister than no sister at all. And she even figured out that she wasn't Luna, but kept faking anyway.
Togata loves Tom Cruise's movies and thinks he's a cool guy, and even after finding out all of the weird and creepy shit he did, he still can't help but see Tom Cruise as cool.
Behemdorg itself was founded on the lie that an actor in a movie was a god. And that actor was an alcoholic rapist.
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u/leavecity54 Jul 18 '23
it's kinda fucked up that "consistent shonen mangaka at writing women" is a high standard
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u/Civil_Conflict_7541 Jul 18 '23
Not at all. Shonens target audience are adolescent boys. Writing good female characters and having a female protagonist which resonates with young het male "dipshits" on a personal level is quite impressive.
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u/FireZord25 Jul 18 '23
I think the standards being not turn them into sexual prop or forgetting to give them characters. CSM ditches the "prop" aspect of the first and doesn't forget the latter.
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u/russart_the_agmer Jul 18 '23
imo beyond gender, togata is one of my absolute favourite characters..
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u/LlambdaLlama Jul 18 '23
Yes, I really love how he treats females with dignity and agency. He just has a quirky way to make characters just feel alive somehow, to make their actions resonate and their fate feel genuine. He truly makes women seem like the other half of humanity which they rightly are part of
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u/steven4869 Jul 18 '23
Gintama exists.
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u/Erst09 Jul 18 '23
Gintama and Chainsaw man are the only anime/manga that I can’t find a single terrible female character.
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u/GammaBrass Jul 18 '23
Black Clover; What Happens in the Dungeon Stays in the Dungeon; Kaguya-Sama/Oshi no Ko; Horimiya; Meguca; Sailor Moon; Kill La Kill; Akame Ga Kill; Noragami; (weirdly enough) DitF; Yona of the Dawn
There are others, but that is a list I put together in 10 seconds. If you aren't finding well written female characters, you probably aren't looking for them.
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u/Foreign-Cup9385 Jul 18 '23
Reze is the most charming fm characteur i've ever seen
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u/El-noobman Jul 18 '23
Fuji seems to be the only one that hasn't made a single bad or fanservice-y female character unlike many manga even today. A lot will have one well written woman and the rest are love interests and damsels. There'll be one useful women and that's it. Gege does it pretty well in JJK but most women there often just don't compete at a certain point.
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u/ventingandcrying Jul 18 '23
he writes them as normal complex characters instead of tropes to go along with the main character, he’s a mythical creature
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u/Vytostuff Jul 18 '23
Fujimoto writes women as people, while many other mangakas write women as just vaginas for the main Hero to dig in after the story's over
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u/toniglandy1 Jul 18 '23
multiple youtubers have done video essays on how well the women in CSM are written:
but it boils down to "yeah, it's good, but goddamn the bar for women in shonen is so low !"
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u/TheSpartyn Jul 18 '23
weird to not put power, kobeni, or asa. kobeni is a bit meme-y but power is the best example
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u/Wooden-Bass-3287 Jul 18 '23
FMA female charachters are very well written, cuz the mangaka is a woman
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u/xahhfink6 Jul 18 '23
I also like to point out that Makima should probably be in the conversation for best female villain of all time... Not just in manga but all media.
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u/pisces2003 Jul 18 '23
They’re all very well written, and don’t fall into the trap of having over sexualized designs.
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u/Teal_is_orange Jul 18 '23
I’d argue the female characters in the promised neverland were written excellently
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u/Mupperma Jul 18 '23
completely agree. i had a hard time reading/watching shonen after a while for a variety of reasons and one giant one is that the women aren’t allowed to be characters. there’s really no competition.
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u/andson-r Jul 18 '23
Fujimoto: writes slightly mentally insane women
Me and the boys: woahhhhh
You're right tho. Lot of shonen writers use woman as prop for the hero, unlike Fujimoto.