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u/michilio May 30 '23
Free speech is not a concept limited to the US firstly, the rest of the world also has (varying degrees) of free speech (laws) and laws that define what´s not free speech. Most democracies with free speech have limits on inciting violence and hatespeech. Like the one Ricky Gervais is a citizen of for instance.
And... Pretty sure even in the free-est free speechiest country on earth you can´t incite violence or defame or slander somebody without being held responsible.
I seem to recall an ex-president who on one hand loved telling his supporters he was going to tighten slander laws, or in his words: "open up libel laws" so he could sue people, and on the other hand just had to fork over 3 million dollar for defamation himself
But yeah. There´s Ricky Gervais fake point. And you can call people hateful slurs in the US without government interference.
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u/Wookimonster May 30 '23
God, Ricky Gervais used to be entertaining, but all the entertaining bits of his acts are striped out and the only thing left is the edge-lording.
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May 31 '23
Remember the Democrats cheering on the BLM riots?
“People do what they do.” - Nancy Pelosi in response to people getting killed, stores being looted and millions in damage being caused.
Both parties are vile and corrupt. Both cheer on violence towards their enemies. All politicians just care about their own money and power.
Trump was an absolute narcissistic lunatic. But Biden and his administration are not any better.
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u/Babki123 May 30 '23
This is an extremely weird interaction.
One name is blured but not the other,
Why would the dude explaining that free speech should not be used weirldy suddenly use it in this obvious situation.
I think this is a weird case of suicide by word attempts disguised as a murder
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u/BarfMenagerie Jun 11 '23
I can’t believe how many people there are who STILL don’t understand the definition of free speech. Including Gervais and the other guy in the screenshot.
What “free speech” actually means is you can speak out against/protest your government without being arrested for it. It is not carte blanche to be a general douche, which has legal consequences if someone on the receiving end of douchery can prove in court it caused actual harm to their well-being or finances.
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u/JRFisher85 May 30 '23
Is it me or does the first guy just point out slander, libel, and defamation?
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u/Stabbmaster May 31 '23
Um, actually, you can't damage a reputation with lies. That's called slander, and there are legitimate consequences for it.
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May 31 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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May 31 '23
LEGAL consequences. If you physically attack someone just cause they insult you, no matter how vile; you are still the one breaking the law.
People sometimes forget that punching someone in the face for calling them slurs is NOT simply “consequences” but illegal and in that example the one throwing the punch is worse then the one that insulted them and will be the one getting arrested.
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u/PrinceofallRabbits May 30 '23
Fuck Ricky Gervais.
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u/Mortwight May 30 '23
What did he do?
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u/Rantman021 May 30 '23
He's a transphobic cunt who can't handle criticism when people call him out for punching down on a group of people who are already dealing with national hate in many nations with people (in the US at least) spouting genocidal rhetoric.
He's also not funny to me, so there is that.
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u/Candlelighter May 30 '23
So there are things you can't joke about?
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u/Rantman021 May 30 '23
Technically no but how many people joke about the holocaust or the civil rights movement? Some things just aren't funny and making fun of a people that were or are facing genocide is one of those things.
There's a general rule in comedy "don't punch down" that is usually accepted but not everyone follows. Essentially, comedy is a force meant to make fun of the "higher" people in the world but a lot of people who like to pander to bigots tend to punch down on minority groups
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u/Candlelighter May 30 '23
Humour is subjective isn't it? What some might find funny might not be what you find funny. And that's ok. Some jokes just aren't funny and they don't get laughs. Punishing comedians though has the effect of censorship where fewer comedians dare to touch certain subjects due to fear of backlash. To me that's the same as a authoritarian regime imposing rules on what you can or can't say.
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u/Repelaleper May 31 '23
That authoritarian regime being the checks notes court of public opinion. What are you even talking about? If you make a shitty joke and your audience points out that it isn't funny, that isn't censorship or oppression. It's just you being bad at your job
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u/Repelaleper May 31 '23
Unless you mean getting deplatformed by Twitter or Netflix or whatever but even then those corporations don't care that you're hurting trans people, they care that you're hurting their bottom line which still comes down to people not finding you funny
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u/Candlelighter May 31 '23
Again, humor is subjective. Plenty of comedians are running with 'offensive' rhetoric in their acts. Gervais is both famous and rich so at least some find him funny.
Calling comedians "transphobic cunt" is of course your right but connecting jokes with genocidal ideations is both extremist and wild.
Jokes can be in poor taste and if they're not funny then they're not funny. Saying there are groups you can't joke about is to me dehumanizing.
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u/PrinceofallRabbits May 31 '23
You don’t like the backlash? Well that’s just free speech baby. Isn’t that what you want, people able to say whatever they want regardless of who it hurts?
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u/Candlelighter May 31 '23
This seems very meta considering which thread we're in. You're absolutely allowed to criticize but the line is drawn when threats are thrown in. Saying comedy promotes genocide is absolutely wild.
So again, backlash is fine. You'll notice I've received plenty here and that's ok. That's free speech.
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u/PrinceofallRabbits May 31 '23
Who’s threatening Ricky though? There’s literally people threatening the lives of trans people and have taken their lives. And yes comedy does promote genocide in some cases. Jokes were made at the expense of Jews in the 1930s and 1940s leading to labeling them as “other” and less than human. This can be said for practically any form of oppression that’s existed throughout history. Pretending comedy doesn’t impact society in good and bad ways is wild.
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u/Candlelighter May 31 '23
Hey, Godwin's law, I knew we'd get there eventually.
But let's address that. Comedy is meant to provoke laughter in some way. Satire, exaggeration etc etc. Can comedy that relies on hate speech truly be considered comedy? When is the line drawn and who draws it? By the amount of people who get offended? Being offended does not grant one power to exercise what can and can't be said in public discourse. Can one say that your username is offensive and get you banned for example?
One role of comedy is to touch upon sensitive subjects, cause that's where its needed the most - to diffuse tensions and create oxygen where there might be none or little. I'd even go as far as to say that it's the duty or comedy. And then to say that there are groups that you cant joke about is dehumanizing that group. Are they so fragile you can't make fun of them? To me that's like ignoring the tenacity of the trans people, slapping them in he face.
We should all strive to dish out and take jokes, that's an aspect of what makes us human. A fundamentalist to me is someone who is completely devoid of humor. Those who take to violence to silence others.
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u/Lazypole May 31 '23 edited May 31 '23
Holy christ brother, take a breath. Don't punch down? Who wrote that rule, you?
One of the most successful comedians in the UK, Frankie Boyle, punches up, down, left, right, you name it. And he's funny. He's made cancer jokes, jokes about Diana, gay jokes, racist jokes, you name it.
But you know what? He's funny, and more importantly, he's joking. You don't get to decide what is and isn't funny, as long as the comedian making the jokes isn't doing it with intent of malice, lighten up.
This is the exact same vibe as Christians telling me not to listen to "that devil metal music". If you don't like it, that's all good, don't apply that to all.
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u/Lostthemoon May 31 '23
If you make jokes about a group of people that they can laugh at themselves? You're joking about that group without being offensive. If the group you are joking about gets defensive or outraged? There might be a reason to reevaluate what you call a joke. Especially when it is about minorities and the 'jokes' are based on harmful stereotypes.
Sometimes you can also make a joke with no malicious intent and still cause harm. The intent does play a role, but it is not the sole factor to take into account. It's true that comedy is subjective and that you can punch down, but it's easier to punch up and harder to balance punching down without being distasteful.
Lots of comedians I think just punch down with no thought of balancing it.
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u/RunaroundX May 30 '23
This guy on Twitter was being a typical MAGA, and people were like "well he's from Florida" so I looked and the area he is from isn't that great so I said "that area is white trash" and he's like "thats racism" so I was like "freedom of speech bby". He didn't like that lol.
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u/H0RUS_SETH May 31 '23
Hey man, "white trash" can be considerd an insult and, therefore, could be illegal in certain countries.
Just saying
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u/RunaroundX May 31 '23
It was supposed to be an insult. Like I said. Its America there's freedom of speech. Also I would like to know what countries its illegal to be racist in
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u/H0RUS_SETH May 31 '23
Aside from it being morally wrong, being racist itself is not directly forbidden, but what racists often do (insults, hate-crimes, slander etc.) is for example forbidden in germany
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u/LadyofTheGreyPath Wordcarys Jun 01 '23
You can say whatever the hell you want, just don't complain about the consequences your words may have.
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u/gravitas_shortage Jul 11 '23
That's literally the definition of "you can't say what the hell you want"
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u/Das_Guet Jun 02 '23
It is always better to make these people admit to themselves how stupid they are.
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u/tw_72 May 30 '23
To be clear - you can SAY whatever you want. It's just that some of the stuff you say comes with consequences.