r/MurderedByWords • u/Dailyght • Jun 02 '23
I can’t come up with a title good enough to express how great this murder is.
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u/Old-Action3769 Jun 04 '23
Except that diets don’t work. It’s been proven over and over. Plus a “diet” is just following a set of rules about how you eat- they aren’t always to lose weight.
Some good points made about nutrition, the activist sounds exhausting and ridiculous, but the overall vibe is “diet culture can work if you want it enough and educate yourself” which is very much not true
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u/cyborgCnidarian Jun 05 '23
Diets can absolutely work, and this has been proven over and over. One of the biggest functions of a weight-loss diet is curbing appetite, as written in the post. The responder did have some great points about nutrition though she may have gone overboard with the details, but her points have merit.
I'm not sure what "diet culture" is, but dieting can work if you learn to avoid foods will make you hungry (sugars, high carbohydrate foods, sweetened drinks), learn to seek foods make you feel full (high fiber veg, high fat proteins), and work in some moderate exercise every day.
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u/Old-Action3769 Jun 06 '23
Diet culture is the pervasive belief that if you eat the “right” foods and move the “right” way, you can diet/exercise your way into a smaller body. Anyone who fails to follow a diet that restricts certain foods or when they can eat fails because they are lazy/unmotivated/etc. Similar attribution for whomever doesn’t exercise the right way/amount/time of day/etc. What it fails to take into account is that 99% of people that go on diets and DO lose weight end up gaining back the weight they lost, plus some. Usually within 2 or so years. Even if they continue to follow the same general eating and exercise rules.
What you’re describing with nutrition and movement is some common sense sprinkled with the “bad foods” caveat. Carbs and sugar are bad, other foods are good. Except we need carbs to function.
What all that fails to take into account is hormone disorders, physical impacts of illnesses, socioeconomic factors, access to food, personal preferences, and the billion other small details that comprise our overall health(and thus impact the way we eat).
I’m happy to point you to so many peer-reviewed articles about this
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u/cyborgCnidarian Jun 06 '23
It would certainly be helpful if you posted links to the articles you are referencing. I agree that there are many factors that affect digestive efficiency, how food is metabolized by the body, and what food is available to a person. But implying a person's weight is out of their control is simple untrue in the majority of cases.
Diet culture... Anyone who fails to follow a diet that restricts certain foods or when they can eat fails because they are lazy/unmotivated/etc.
I don't think very many dieters and nutritionists share this point of view. The one who do you can comfortably ignore because they are assholes. The vast majority will acknowledge that it is very difficult to change habits, and just trying is worth commendation. You paint a picture of an entire culture of only jerks, which is not true.
Carbs and sugar are bad, other foods are good. Except we need carbs to function.
We need a limited number of carbs to function, far less than what most people consume. As I stated before, sugary foods should be avoided because they don't curb appetite nearly as well as fats, high fiber foods, and high water content foods. Compare eating 16oz of chips vs. eating a 16oz. pork chop. Which do you think has fewer calories? Which will make you feel more full, and for how long will you feel it?
What all that fails to take into account is hormone disorders, physical impacts of illnesses, socioeconomic factors, access to food, personal preferences, and the billion other small details that comprise our overall health(and thus impact the way we eat).
None of this really discounts the positive impact of healthy eating and exercise. For some people, this many not be possible in one form or another, but the vast majority of people will see benefit from it.
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Jul 23 '23
[deleted]
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u/Old-Action3769 Aug 01 '23
But humans aren’t actually machines and so that isn’t the case. If most people dove further into scientific literature, they’d realize that calories in, calories out isn’t how it works for a majority of people. Also, a huge number of diseases “caused” by excess weight are actually correlated with excess weight, and being fat isn’t nearly as unhealthy as we’ve been raised to believe. But weight is tied to morality for so many people that it’s a pervasive belief that if you work hard enough, you’ll always lose weight, and if you aren’t losing weight, it’s only because your behaviors are problematic.
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Aug 01 '23
[deleted]
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u/Old-Action3769 Aug 02 '23
Not linking to studies because they’re behind a paywall you likely don’t have access to but here’s an article by a researcher at the university of Sydney who studies weight loss https://theconversation.com/its-time-to-bust-the-calories-in-calories-out-weight-loss-myth-199092#:~:text=Bottom%20line,a%20reduction%20in%20energy%20intake.
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u/Garagairas Jun 11 '23
The reason people gain weight after following a strict diet for so long is because either their diet breaks and they start eating shit again, they don't increase the exercise part of their routine regularly, or they do not adapt their diet.
I went vegetarian 4 years ago and also started working out regularly. I lost 70 pounds, and have managed to keep that off for the majority of the time. I eat mostly proteins and roasted or raw vegetables, though I do also eat a lot of sweets. I'm just now reaching 200 lbs, so still kind of a big guy but I'm keeping the weight off.
The problem isn't that diets don't work, it's that people want a one size fits all solution when there isn't one. You have to figure out a diet and workout plan that is enough to see results but doesn't impact your life too much.
Also personally I've gotten nothing but kind replies and helpful suggestions from the fitness community, but I suppose I didn't go in starting with "diets don't work and fat people will always be fat."
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Jun 06 '23
Except it is.
I've done a bunch of weight loss recently, so has my disabled friend. We've lost very similar amounts of weight, mine was through exercise and portion size reduction - no proper diet per say. Friend is almost exclusively diet since they can't handle exercise that much. Both of us have lost 4+ stone (25+kg).
Diets don't work?
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u/Old-Action3769 Jun 06 '23
Check in with me in a few years. You’ll have likely gained that weight back, and then some. Or maybe you’re part of the 1% of humans that diet to lose weight and don’t yo-yo, which is worse for your heart than being healthy(eating a varied diet and moving your body) at a larger size.
When you reduce portions and exercise more, your body figures out ways to expend the same amount of calories. Weight loss plateaus, and you’ll enter the maintenance phase of the diet. You can’t reduce calorie intake indefinitely, and then you’ll likely gain the weight back.
I’m not saying you can’t lose weight. I’m not saying you can’t restrict what you eat. I’m saying those things don’t necessarily go hand in hand
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Jun 06 '23
I do see what you are saying hence why I haven't dieted myself because I don't wish to sustain restrictive eating. Just saying that dieting does lead to weight loss if done correctly.
I've gone the route of exercise and less excess and it's working fine, plateaued a couple of times at different weights but perseverance is key to weight loss, changing the exercise regime or for diet method, choosing different options.
I'm not a fan of dieting myself, I prefer to do more and maintain the food you like. But I won't outright dismiss it's capability for weight loss for those unable to do the level of exercise I do.
Edit: Latest plateau I gave up refined sugar for 3 months, lost another 1.5 stone and back on sugar now and haven't gained the weight in the couple months since and I've gotten a healthy relationship with sugary snacks.
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u/SomethingIWontRegret Jun 06 '23
I hate people who wish failure on others. Little of what they say is true. Even the statistic about diet failure rate, there is a structural reason for that. People who succeed in weight loss don't appear in weight loss trials. Why would they? They've already lost weight. The people who wind up in volunteer pools for weight loss studies are strongly biased toward serial diet failers.
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u/SomethingIWontRegret Jun 06 '23 edited Jun 06 '23
which is worse for your heart than being healthy(eating a varied diet and moving your body) at a larger size.
This is a HAES trope, not fact.
There are studies that claim to show this. Those studies do not distinguish between intentional (diet driven) weight cycling and unintentional (you have undiagnosed cancer / Crohns / hyperthyroidism etc) weight cycling. Unintentional weight cycling is a big red flag. It's the main reason why doctors take your weight at annual exams.
When you control for the intention, you get different results:
Systematic review: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4205264/
Although weight regain following successful weight loss remains one of the most challenging aspects of body weight regulation, evidence for an adverse effect of weight cycling appears sparse, if it exists at all.
Just trying to lose weight and failing improves mortality: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12614090/
Attempted weight loss is associated with lower all-cause mortality, independent of weight change. Self-reported intentional weight loss is associated with lower mortality rates, and weight loss is associated with higher mortality rates only if it is unintentional.
Animal model, where they fattened up and kept fat, or repeatedly fattened up and starved down mice in a manner that would be considered unethical with humans: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/oby.22290
Weight cycling significantly increased life-span relative to remaining with obesity and had a similar benefit to sustained modest weight loss.
I've given you links to the full texts, not abstracts. Read up!
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u/Gromflomite_KM Jun 03 '23
Both of them sound stupid and exhausting.
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u/Royalportal Jun 04 '23
Then don’t read it, if you even can
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u/thatbushcamper12 Jun 20 '23
Good fucking damn bro wrote a fucking essay and absolute destroyed em. Go lee
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u/-NGC-6302- Jun 03 '23
Long and drawn out but still feels inevitably quick
good ride