Trump was 'personally involved' in packing boxes and moving them to Mar-a-Lago, prosecutors say

[u/rstevens94]

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-personally-involved-packing-moving-boxes-to-mar-a-lago-2023-6

[u/AutoModerator]

As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion.

In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.

If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.

For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click here to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.

---

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/phatelectribe]

he can't pull the "I didn't know" card. I think there's multiple witnesses who have squealed on Trump and he's going to get absolutely boned.

[u/mymomknowsyourmom → u/phatelectribe]

he can't pull the "I didn't know" card. I think there's multiple witnesses who have squealed on Trump and he's going to get absolutely boned.

He was calling for Hilary to be locked up for allegedly having classified material. Republicans running for president are already turning on him. "Will you pardon him?" "Trump stole secrets of Americas vulnerabilities against enemy nations' military. Inshallah?"

edit: for those who don't know, lock him up.

[u/DelirousDoc → u/mymomknowsyourmom]

In the indictment they included Trumps campaign comments about confidential information which at the time was his thoughts about Clinton's actions but are now going to be used to prove he knows the severity of handling classified documents.

[u/BlatantConservative → u/DelirousDoc]

He actually said he wanted to make the laws stricter lmao.

[u/HitMePat → u/BlatantConservative]

He did make the laws stricter and now they'll be used against him.

[u/theVoidWatches → u/HitMePat]

"I meant they should be stricter against Democrats!'"

[u/Basic_Response_6445 → u/theVoidWatches]

That's exactly what he meant. The fascist mindset 100%.

[u/F_is_for_Ducking → u/mymomknowsyourmom]

Yeah but they’ll say no until they’re in office and they won’t exactly lose their job right away for changing their mind.

[u/Randys_Spooky_Ghost → u/F_is_for_Ducking]

It’s our responsibility to keep them out of office.

[u/SlightReturn420 → u/Randys_Spooky_Ghost]

That's the key. This pardon malarkey is a moot point if the GOP can't get into the White House.

[u/Randys_Spooky_Ghost → u/SlightReturn420]

Agreed. Don’t be apathetic. Vote, protest. New people are born every day, don’t forget to educate the young about being a decent human being.

[u/mymomknowsyourmom → u/F_is_for_Ducking]

Yeah but they’ll say no until they’re in office and they won’t exactly lose their job right away for changing their mind.

MAGAcult will crucify them like they're trans. I've already asked a bunch and they said the same.

[u/aelysium → u/mymomknowsyourmom]

For those who don’t know, they’re different statutes.

Trump is being indicted (apparently, hope to fuck I’m not wrong) under the Espionage Act, which was put into Title 18 of the US Code before the classification system was instituted.

It deals with documents involving national defense, and specifically has leeway for the individual(s) to properly return them to an officer of the US Government. The charges appear to be due to this statute with charges stacked on top for all the ways he tried to fuck with it. It does not care about classification.

He’s not being charged with mishandling classified documents (which in his presidency went from a misdemeanor to a felony go figure lol).

Given he was a classification authority, a likely argument would have been that by uttering the information (as Obama did) or taking the documents (as numerous presidents have done) that de facto declassified it. Interestingly - that argument, while it would likely exonerate Trump, would also exonerate Biden (a national classification authority while he was VP) and Hillary (a State department classification authority while she was secretary) due to EO 13526, which is still standing.

The big thing prosecution is likely to go after is proving the documents were related to national defense, AND that he deliberately made moves to prevent their return to an officer of the US Government.

[u/aelysium → u/aelysium]

Update: Trump was indicted under 793(e) - related to the holding and return of NDI (National Defense Information) documentation and NOT 1924 / related to the mishandling of classified documentation.

So yeah, thisll likely be a dunk.

[u/halarioushandle → u/aelysium]

And even if he finds a dumb jury or sympathetic to him, there is still the charges of conspiracy to obstruct an investigation. Doesn't matter if the docs in question were classified as all, the grand jury subpoenaed the documents as evidence. He not only lied about having them, he conspired to move them so that his lawyers wouldn't know he had them. That way they would unknowingly lie to a grand jury!! And then he lied to federal agents when they questioned him about having the documents... Repeatedly! There is literally no question that he did this and no way he can't be found guilty on those charges alone.

[u/aelysium → u/halarioushandle]

The charges should be really simple.

Do you agree with the law that if the government finds you have documents pertaining to national defense we have a right to gather them from you to keep our society safe?

Do you believe these specific documents pertain to our national defense?

Do you believe Trump tried to keep these documents from us?

[u/CodeMonkeyPhoto → u/phatelectribe]

Reminds me of the shaggy it wasn't me lyrics

[u/Vlad_the_Homeowner → u/CodeMonkeyPhoto]

Classified docs on the counter [It wasn't me]

Boxes of them in the shower [It wasn't me]

They even caught me on camera [It wasn't me]

Sharpie marks on the folder [It wasn't me]

They know that I sold em [It wasn't me]

Jack Smith says that I'm a goner...

[u/Brassballs1976 → u/Vlad_the_Homeowner]

Mueller walked in caught me red handed selling the docs that I stole.

Picture this, they were all decalassified because I thought about it.

How did I forget that you would have your eyes on me?

The whole time I was POTUS you, never took your eyes off me.

[u/Alex_Wizard → u/phatelectribe]

Imagine a sitting U.S. President using the defense “I didn’t know what my team was taking” that included extremely sensitive, highly classified documents.

Now realize that’s his defense. Even if it hypothetically was entirely legal it begs the question if he’s fit for office at that competency.

[u/KnottShore → u/Alex_Wizard]

H. L. Mencken(US reporter, literary critic, editor, author of the early 20th century) was able to explain why it did and could happen:

• As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

[u/EqualDatabase → u/KnottShore]

downright moron.

not nearly strong enough to describe Dump

[u/phatelectribe → u/Alex_Wizard]

I think his defense is going to be “I declassified them by sayin for myself they’re not classified any longer when I took them”. I wish I was joking but this will be his defense.

[u/RightClickSaveWorld → u/phatelectribe]

Two problems with that. Even if they were never classified, many of these charges would still apply. And two, they have a recording of him saying that the documents are still classified: https://i.imgur.com/Pm3YUCq.png

[u/DadJokeBadJoke → u/phatelectribe]

The espionage act doesn't have a requirement for docs to be classified, just mishandled.

[u/Stop_Sign → u/phatelectribe]

If the docs contain nuclear secrets, they must be declassified with a process - the president's decision is not enough. So even that defense does not work.

[u/FunkyTown313 → u/phatelectribe]

On camera hopefully.

[u/Unabated_Blade → u/FunkyTown313]

Did you read the indictment? He produced a secret military plan in front of a writer for some book, commented on how it was a secret document, commented on how it was still classified, and laughed about how what they were doing was probably illegal - while the whole conversation was being recorded by the author.

[u/EverybodyBuddy → u/Unabated_Blade]

It’s even dumber. The conversation was being recorded by Trump’s aide — at his request — because he doesn’t like being misquoted by reporters.

[u/rupertLumpkinsBrothr → u/EverybodyBuddy]

Stupid Watergate.

[u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year → u/rupertLumpkinsBrothr]

Keep in mind that original Watergate was also pretty stupid.

[u/rupertLumpkinsBrothr → u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year]

Which makes the descriptor on this one all the more sad.

[u/FunkyTown313 → u/Unabated_Blade]

I was referring to the absolutely getting boned part.

[u/phatelectribe → u/FunkyTown313]

Possibly but that might have something to do with the mysterious Mar A Lago pool flood incident, that apparently flooded only the CCTV server control room:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/05/politics/mar-a-lago-pool-flood-suspicions-prosecutors-trump-investigation-classified-documents/index.html

I think this was a last ditch effort to conceal video footage related to the documents and which visitors were there.

[u/zdubs → u/phatelectribe]

Floodgate? Watergate 2 electric scrambleoo? This didn’t even make it into the 49 page indictment

[u/Justame13 → u/zdubs]

More like “Stupid Watergate”. They couldn’t manage to destroy computers with an entire pool’s worth of water

[u/bryansj → u/phatelectribe]

From what I saw about that is none of the footage was damaged. I was thinking it was unlikely the security computer/server/gear would be sitting directly on the floor with little clearance to be flood damaged.

It's not like there's an 8ft wave hitting the room. Probably a few inches max.

[u/C-c-c-comboBreaker17 → u/bryansj]

That's because the footage went to a cloud server and their security provider was already subpoenaed for the footage before the "flood" anyways.

[u/DrManhattan_DDM → u/FunkyTown313]

Have we finally reached Black Mirror season 1 then?

[u/rebelintellectual → u/DrManhattan_DDM]

The pig 🐷🐷🐷 episode???

[u/KaraAnneBlack → u/phatelectribe]

The just-released photos show an amount of boxes too large and dispersed that no one, not even the waitresses can say they didn’t know.

[u/ninjas_in_my_pants → u/phatelectribe]

Yeah, reading the indictment and the coverage, it sounds like he is truly fucked on this.

[u/klsi832 → u/phatelectribe]

He’s on tape saying it himself.

[u/mecon320]

He's somehow dumber than we all thought, and we thought he was pretty damn dumb.

[u/rifraf2442 → u/mecon320]

This is an area where he excels. Give credit where due, each time we’re like “noooo, I mean yeah he’s corrupt and dishonest but he isn’t that fucking stupid!” And each time he delivers.

[u/JayR_97 → u/rifraf2442]

At least hes corrupt and stupid. Corrupt and smart is even more terrifying.

[u/mountaintop111]

Here is a photo of the boxes containing classified documents in one of Trump's bathroom at Mar-a-Lago: https://i.imgur.com/4kNpqVG.png

This scene is gonna appear in a future movie. The writers don't even need to make stuff up to make the movie entertaining. This is truly stupid Watergate. Elect a clown, you get a circus.

[u/Dazzling-Finger7576 → u/mountaintop111]

Who puts a chandelier above a shitter?!?

[u/fuzzysailor1 → u/Dazzling-Finger7576]

The same tacky ass person who has a gold toilet

[u/DrManhattan_DDM → u/fuzzysailor1]

But the toilet pictured next to the illegally retained classified national security intel isn’t gold

[u/Simple_Opossum → u/DrManhattan_DDM]

I like that they left room there for someone to take a shit, despite having completely filled almost all available space with national secrets.

[u/coldfirephoenix → u/Simple_Opossum]

Gotta have some reading material while you're on the can, I guess.

[u/PowertripSimp_AkaMOD → u/coldfirephoenix]

National secrets sure beats the back of a shampoo bottle.

[u/smurfsundermybed → u/Simple_Opossum]

Beats a 10 year old sports illustrated, I guess.

[u/mountaintop111 → u/Dazzling-Finger7576]

Donnie Moscow I guess.

[u/rosetta_stonehenge → u/[deleted]]

His decorating style is Modern Iraqi Warlord Palace Nightmare. He's been tacky since the 40s. Good Lord, his ex Ivana was even worse. Just ostentatious, gold-plated shittiness.

[u/joemangle → u/rosetta_stonehenge]

I think there's an "eastern European petrostate oligarch" aesthetic here too

[u/JUSTICE_SALTIE → u/[deleted]]

Shower curtain, lol.

[u/DownwardFacingBear → u/JUSTICE_SALTIE]

Lol yeah a shower curtain next to a chandelier is pretty cringe

[u/greenroom628 → u/DownwardFacingBear]

i mean, it's a chandeliered bathroom with a shower rod and curtain you pick up at walmart... you had money to set it up, but not enough to maintain it. kinda screams trump.

[u/the_last_carfighter → u/greenroom628]

ou had money to set it up, but not enough to maintain it. kinda screams trump.

Oh come on now, he stiffed the contractors and then a less than minimum wage cleaning lady maintained it from then on.

[u/Luxpreliator → u/JUSTICE_SALTIE]

Like the shittiest shower curtain imaginable short of a tarp taped to the ceiling.

[u/ItchyPolyps → u/Luxpreliator]

Wait, zoom in the upper right. THERE ARE MORE BOXES IN THE SHOWER! They're stacked to just above the shower curtain on the right, like a box lid higher, and on the left you can see something that might be boxes just barely poking over the top of the curtain.

[u/SophiaofPrussia → u/[deleted]]

Trump has always had terrible taste. I imagine his interior designers play a game to pick out the tackiest shit they can find for him.

[u/Xikar_Wyhart → u/[deleted]]

Not even 80s decor, Bad 80s decor. Which is basically just Trump style in general, gaudy mismatched items that are "expensive" just haphazardly put together.

80s decor can and does look nice if it was designed properly to flow and work together.

[u/[deleted] → u/mountaintop111]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/daspiredd → u/[deleted]]

True. No one was running the country between 2017-2020. Unless it was Barnum & Bailey.

[u/reticulatedspline → u/Dazzling-Finger7576]

I once heard his style described as "Persian hooker wins the lottery."

[u/WylleWynne → u/reticulatedspline]

"Like Elvis tried to remember what Versailles looks like, but couldn't." - John Oliver, describing Trump's style.

[u/Neuroware → u/reticulatedspline]

there is a book from the 80's "Dictator Style" which is interior shots of famous dictators' housing and accompanying analysis of design choices. this book is his design bible.

edit- the book is actually from 2006 and is entitled "Dictator Style: Lifestyles of the World's Most Colorful Despots" by Peter York.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dazzling-Finger7576]

Somebody who wants to appear rich but is incredibly insecure about it

[u/BigBob1216 → u/Dazzling-Finger7576]

That chandelier should be count 38

[u/[deleted] → u/Dazzling-Finger7576]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/oofam → u/Dazzling-Finger7576]

And a 10 dollar shower curtain

[u/palmbeachatty → u/oofam]

Looks like more stacked behind the curtain too.

[u/DadJokeBadJoke → u/palmbeachatty]

That's to separate the Top Secret docs from the Classified docs.

[u/Long_Before_Sunrise → u/[deleted]]

"As others have noticed, can we talk about the carpet at Mar-a-Lago? Should that be added to the list of crimes?" - Dan Rather tweeted on August 31, 2022

[u/Gertrude_D → u/Dazzling-Finger7576]

His taste has always been complete crap.

[u/restore_democracy → u/Dazzling-Finger7576]

No one ever accused Trump of having taste.

[u/rity5yender → u/mountaintop111]

Dude, Trump has the absolute worst taste. Holy fucking shit.

[u/vahntitrio → u/rity5yender]

It looks like the "I just put up the most expensive of anything" rooms you would make in a video game.

Except he probably used cheap stuff that emulates high end decor.

[u/rity5yender → u/vahntitrio]

A 10 year old child decorating their mansion in the Sims.

[u/Ande64 → u/mountaintop111]

I'm sorry, don't we all hide our classified secret documents in boxes in our main bathroom? I thought that was pretty much common across the board.

[u/CumulativeHazard → u/Ande64]

I use a cute little basket, like my grandparents had for their bathroom magazines.

[u/MrD3a7h → u/mountaintop111]

What are the odds the cleaning staff went in there nightly? You know, the low-wage worker? The one that can move while being invisible? The type that has very little in the way of background checks done? An invisible person who can access this bathroom late at night? The type of position that a foreign intelligence agency that knows Mar a Lago is where a former US President lives? The type of job that it is pretty common to speak limited english and could be any ethnicity without batting an eyelash?

Every single page in that bathroom has probably been scanned and is sitting on a server in Moscow and Beijing.

[u/turquoise_amethyst → u/MrD3a7h]

100%. Everyone on the cleaning staff definitely had access to that bathroom.

[u/asoap → u/turquoise_amethyst]

Makes you wonder if two cleaning people both were scanning in the same room at the same time and working for two different governments. Would that be awkward?

[u/Justame13 → u/mountaintop111]

I have an image of watching this with my grandkids. “They weren’t really that dumb were they?” - “Nah. They were way dumber, but a movie can only be so long so stuff got cut. Now go read the book on your implant.”

[u/MattAmpersand → u/mountaintop111]

This is like straight out of Arrested Development.

Can anyone please double check the boxes are not labeled BLUTH?

[u/phatelectribe → u/mountaintop111]

Fuck, I wonder if he was literally using at bathroom reading material. Or letting foreign nationals "use the toilet" for a fee.

I mean we already know a Chinese spy was a visitor at Mar A Lago;

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/25/chinese-trespasser-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-resort-sentenced.html

[u/Subvoltaic → u/phatelectribe]

Nah, Diaper Don does not use toilets, and he does not read.

[u/CaptainAxiomatic → u/mountaintop111]

Do NOT go in there!

[u/queuedUp → u/mountaintop111]

Those boxes probably smell awful.

[u/DweEbLez0 → u/mountaintop111]

Elect a fucking piece of shit, you get shit everywhere.

[u/OkRoll3915]

this is how he stored our country's top secrets. Nuclear secrets, US vulnerabilities, military battle plans. Our lives and security were threatened because he put these top secret documents in a fucking resort bathroom.

[u/ajmartin527 → u/OkRoll3915]

Not just ours, those of our allies who only share information with us because we promise we can keep that information safe from their enemies.

Now they know all it takes is for Russia/China/adversary to pump some propaganda into our election cycle and all of their secrets are shared with their enemies.

The amount of damage this is going to cause to US foreign policy, and rightfully so, is hard to fathom and will be long felt.

Not only that, these secrets were undoubtedly weaponized against our very own allies. This isn’t stupid watergate, this is on an entirely different scale. This is why tax filings, financial disclosures and the enforcement of the emoluments clause is SO FUCKING IMPORTANT.

Anyone could have seen this coming. Trump was beholden to his creditors and he had easy access to set himself free. He shouldn’t have been allowed within hundreds of miles of this information. We knew he was going to sell secrets from the very beginning, just due to the debts that we knew about.

Even without those debts, his history of greed and financial irresponsibility made it clear that he would leverage anything he could regardless of the damage to enrich himself. It’s so infuriating that we’re sitting here in 2023 assessing the damage when it shouldn’t have ever been allowed to happen in the first place.

[u/fartsandprayers → u/ajmartin527]

"hE cAn'T bE cOrRuPtEd bEcAuSe hE's a mIlLiOnAiRe!"

[u/Pndrizzy → u/fartsandprayers]

Yeah, millionaires totally have a track record for hating money. Wait.

[u/Last-Kitchen3418 → u/ajmartin527]

It blows my mind that there are no background checks for Presidential Candidates.

In my state, as part of the hiring process for being a Police recruit, the background check starts from birth. Any trips outside the country lasting more than a week has to be disclosed. Every place you ever lived, how long etc, needs to be disclosed. Any illegal activities or actions, regardless if you didn’t get caught, needs to be disclosed… any time you did drugs, drove while intoxicated etc..

If you have bad credit you are disqualified. They interview employers, neighbors etc. After you pass all that there are hours of written psychological tests, followed by an interview with a police psychologist. The last step is the polygraph, where they go over the answers you provided from the background application.

After you’re hired you’re at the academy for 6 months and must pass the final exam before becoming a recruit. If you successfully complete the 1 year probation period, you are officially a Police Officer.

It’s nuts that the person who will hold the most power in the world doesn’t have to go through some type of vetting system. At the least their financial situation and mental health should be looked into to help prevent “bad apples” from holding office.

[u/Sacket → u/Last-Kitchen3418]

I had the DoD hounding me for 6 months because they couldn't verify that I worked at a restaurant that shut down (even though I paid taxes and had my W2s). This was for a 20$ an hour factory gig making passports. Good to know that I'm the "security threat." Apparently, being poor is more suspicious than being neck deep in Russian and Saudi contacts.

[u/No_Pirate9647 → u/OkRoll3915]

After his McDs and always complaining he clogs toilets and can't flush them, what brave soul would go in there?

[u/DUBBZZ → u/OkRoll3915]

He also showed them to Kid Rock

[u/fowlraul]

What are the idiots that voted for trump’s scam gonna do when it finally hits them? 🤔

[u/Detective-Signal → u/fowlraul]

It'll never hit them. They don't care about facts.

[u/FunkyTown313 → u/fowlraul]

That's the secret, it won't.

[u/fowlraul → u/FunkyTown313]

But there’s pictures this time! I know they can’t read, but they can sorta understand comic books I think.

[u/FunkyTown313 → u/fowlraul]

You're asking a lot

[u/poop-money → u/fowlraul]

That's obviously an AI Photoshop job. The dEeP sTaTe is at it again!

Or.

That's Hillary's bathroom! You can tell because of how it is!

Obvious /s

[u/restore_democracy → u/FunkyTown313]

Totally legal, totally cool. Obama’s bathroom is the same. /s

[u/[deleted] → u/restore_democracy]

I'm sure they're going on about how Hillary Clinton had a server in a bathroom once, and how they found pictures of Hunter Biden's genitals in a bathroom once, and so on, and so forth.

[u/GigMistress → u/fowlraul]

Don't forget that many of them have known all along what he is and love him for it.

[u/spankythamajikmunky → u/[deleted]]

they dont. that viking dude from jan 6 went from meek and apologetic blaming trump to now he says he feels the same as he did then

[u/Keenly891Observing → u/spankythamajikmunky]

People like that don't understand "consequences" like normal, healthy people. They only see punishment in terms of power and vindictiveness; they don't believe in "right" and "wrong" - only "might" and "weakness".

[u/rollawaythestone → u/fowlraul]

Its tribal. Reality doesn't matter for these people. It's "my-team" vs. the "other-team", and nothing else matters.

[u/taez555 → u/fowlraul]

They'll claim they never supported or voted for him, and it was actually the democrats that did.

[u/orientbambino → u/fowlraul]

I actually think if Trump had resigned from office pulled a full Nixon he would have escaped prosecution. He kept pushing the envelope though until they came after him. The key thing I hear from Trump supporters, and I think Elon yesterday is that Trump is being unfairly prosecuted because they all do illegal shit and are let go. There is a difference here though he kept going other guys that pushed the envelope backed off. None of the rest of them are as criminal as Trump is, he's also way dumber so its easier for them to successfully prosecute him. They see biden had classified docs think its the same well Biden cooperated and even if it was malicious somehow thats the big difference, Trump kept trying to gaslight them into thinking they weren't actually illegal if he had handed them all over he would likely of avoided prosecution too.

[u/ihohjlknk → u/fowlraul]

"Well Obama wore a tan suit so it's okay that Trump stole national secrets and sold them to hostile forces."

[u/GravyBus → u/fowlraul]

The problem is they are in too deep. If they admit it's a scam, that would be admitting they fell for the scam and are idiots for all the giant signs and boat parades and NFTs and whatever else they did to worship a complete phony.

[u/BlackScholes1727]

"In January 2021, as he was preparing to leave the White House, Trump and his White House staff... packed items, including some of Trump's boxes," the indictment says. "Trump was personally involved in the process. Trump caused his boxes, containing hundreds of classified documents, to be transported from the White House to the Mar-a-Lago Club."

That lazy fuck never does any manual labor. Must have been special ones for his buddy Putin.

According to the indictment, the documents Trump took included some of the country's most sensitive military secrets, like information about the U.S. nuclear program and vulnerabilities the country would face in the event of an attack.

If this was a citizen who had never held office the death penalty would be on the table.

[u/MaASInsomnia → u/BlackScholes1727]

And if it was a Democrat, Fox News would be demanding the death penalty. As it is, well, they're going to be falling over themselves to make excuses.

[u/SharkBaitDLS → u/MaASInsomnia]

If he actually sold nuclear secrets, I think the death penalty is unironically justified. I literally cannot think of a more treasonous and damaging thing you could do to this country.

[u/darkingz → u/SharkBaitDLS]

I think an attempted coup of your own country counts as something that is worse (they’re both pretty at the top though)

[u/XRT28 → u/MaASInsomnia]

As it is, well, they're going to be falling over themselves to make excuses.

Maybe. They've been showing signs they want to cut bait with him and move onto the next fascist dictator wannabe(Desantis)

[u/Waitwhonow → u/BlackScholes1727]

If he is not in Jail after this

America will prove it does not have a justice system

And it will have a ripple effect all throughout the system and how people communicate and respect a system that has taken 250+ years to build

This is going to be the biggest case the WORLD has ever seen ( in our lifetimes) and we are living through history

The guy took Nuclear secrets and also read he took plans of the Pentagon and lot more really really serious shit!!

And 100% sure he sold these to someone. He didnt just take it for his book reading collection

As for the Trump voter. if you are still for trump after this- you are treasonous and you are not someone who should be talked to because you really dont understand how important it is to keep Nuclear and military secrets - a secret. It literally is why America even exists

This is just insane!!

[u/fartlapse → u/Waitwhonow]

we have a justice system. Just a different one for people with money

[u/coldfirephoenix → u/BlackScholes1727]

That lazy fuck never does any manual labor.

Honestly, his lawyers' best defense at this point.

"Your honor, I'd like to bring in character witnesses that prove that my client is so terminally lazy, he COULDN'T have been personally involved in moving boxes of anything."

[u/danknadoflex]

Some on r/conservative are admitting people who break the law should be held accountable. Let’s not all hold our breaths. Watch in real time as their conversation shifts when the right wing media machine synchronizes and disseminates their talking points.

[u/caserock → u/danknadoflex]

They're yelling at the sky begging for talking points at the moment

[u/SupportstheOP → u/caserock]

I remember watching as they scratched their heads as the Red Wave became the Red Teardrop. Some in their userbase finally figured it out that persecuting minorities, hating women, shitting on anything anyone under 35 says or does, and not having a single platform that in any way, shape, or form is universally popular, and helpful to the good of all society, would probably need to change if they wanted to get votes. Then, a couple of weeks later, it was the "transgenders" fault or "insert_scapegoat_here". So, they went right back to pointless rage and forgot about that epiphany.

[u/kia75 → u/danknadoflex]

Watch in real time as their conversation shifts when the right wing media machine synchronizes and disseminates their talking points.

Yes, r/conservative is funny in that when some big news happens, R/Conservative starts out with views and takes that make sense, and aren't too far off from what everyone else thinks. As time goes on you can see the views shift and change to whatever the right-wing talking point has settled, and by the end, nobody remembers that they ever had a rational take on the latest subject.

[u/DadJokeBadJoke → u/kia75]

Just like the GQP congregation in DC after J6TH

[u/omg_drd4_bbq → u/kia75]

It's like the trope where the tv broadcasts a secret trigger word, except actual.

Hate to say it, but this looks really bad for Trump. The law is the law.

fox news theme plays

eyes glaze over

Fox: Trump declassified the documents just before stepping out of the Whitehouse by yelling 'Ollie ollie oxen free!' to a junior staffer.

MAGAs in unison: Trump declassified the documents just before stepping out of the Whitehouse by yelling 'Ollie ollie oxen free!' to a junior staffer.

[u/kramerica_intern → u/kia75]

I took a peek and was refreshingly surprised at their fair takes about no one being above the law and classified documents being a big effing deal. But this makes more sense than expecting such rational thoughts to stick.

[u/BakedMitten → u/kramerica_intern]

Mods are already deleting those comments and locking those thread. Expect everything to be back to normal by tomorrow once Fox prime time and Newsmax come up with some talking points

[u/Naiehybfisn374 → u/danknadoflex]

Yeah they don't have their talking points sorted and they need some time to ban dissent. They'll likely land on a combination of "But Biden!!" and "It's actually good that Trump protected these documents from the deep state"

[u/Agitated-Tadpole1041 → u/Naiehybfisn374]

They’ll never realize we don’t gaf abt biden or hillary or any of them. We’re not a cult. What abt biden?…ok, charge him. What abt hillary?…ok, charge her too.

People that break the law should be held accountable. Period.

[u/boomboy8511 → u/Agitated-Tadpole1041]

I've always held the thought that Democrats care more about what their elected reps DO and Republicans care more about what their elected reps SAY.

[u/orientbambino → u/danknadoflex]

You watch once one of the convictions hits they are all gonna say they were never on board with him and that Desantis is the real Maga. They only voted for Trump because Desantis wasn't around yet.

[u/nosayso]

The indictment is really damning and I encourage everyone to read it: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23839690-read-trump-indictment-related-to-mishandling-of-classified-documents

It's on tape Trump showing someone classified documents and then saying that they were secret and still classified and that he wasn't allowed to declassify them. It's clear he broke the law, and that he knew he was breaking the law. Also ordered his attorneys to lie for him and get rid of the documents once the federal investigation started. He he were a civilian he'd already be in and prison and he'd never be seeing the outside of it.

[u/alittlemore → u/nosayso]

It is absolutely fascinating! It is so clear and cut...If this doesn't sink this monster I'll have no faith in our government.

[u/MrSurly → u/nosayso]

were a civilian

He 100% is a civilian.

[u/joehizzle]

remember that many GOP members voted against impeachment because they said the criminal Justice system could hold Trump accountable.

[u/inquisitive_guy_0_1 → u/joehizzle]

Oh yeah they also said "let the voters decide." Sure enough that was bullshit as well. Who could have possibly seen that coming? /s

[u/Eastcoastpal]

The prosecutors should really check out the Bedminster mansion. Pretty sure there are some classified docs there as well. Trump is like a squirrel when it comes to classified documents in holding onto them he will hold them and store them everywhere and anywhere.

[u/JoeBoredom → u/Eastcoastpal]

The Russians have already picked up those documents.

[u/[deleted] → u/JoeBoredom]

Saudis

[u/fartsandprayers → u/[deleted]]

China gave trump a secret bank account with millions in it.

[u/magnetar_industries → u/Eastcoastpal]

At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are national security documents riddled throughout all of his properties, hidden in ways to virtually guarantee investigators will never recover all of them. I think we need to raze all of the trump properties to the ground, incinerate all the debris, and then cap the smoldering trump holes with 20 feet of reinforced concrete. Wrap each perimeter in concertina wire and call it a day.

[u/_PadfootAndProngs_ → u/[deleted]]

It’s actually an extremely interesting part that was left out of this indictment (regarding boxes at Bedminster). Let me explain:

In the “Defendants’ Concealment of Boxes” section starting on page 21, it explains the movement of every box at Mar-a-Lago.

Specifically, on page 24 of the indictment, it says:

In sum, between May 23, 2022, and June 2, 2022, before Trump Attorney 1's review of TRUMP's boxes in the Storage Room, NAUTA--at TRUMP's direction—moved approximately 64 boxes from the Storage Room to TRUMP’s residence and brought to the Storage Room only approximately 30 boxes. Neither TRUMP nor NAUTA informed Trump Attorney 1 of this information.

Then, on page 26, it says:

Earlier [on June 3, 2022], NAUTA and others loaded several of TRUMP’s boxes along with other items on aircraft that flew TRUMP and his family north (Bedminster) for the summer.

THUS, on the day that Trump’s lawyer searched the MAL storage room for docs, Trump directed Nauta to move 64 boxes from MAL to Trump’s house. Then, a couple hours later, after supposedly “picking through them”, Trump directs Nauta to move only 30 boxes BACK to MAL.

Then, the next day, after the 3rd lawyer had falsely certified that they found EVERYTHING (they didn’t) and handed the documents over to 2 employees from the DOJ and FBI, respectively, Trump and Nauta moved those extra 34 boxes on to Trump’s private plane with which he took to Bedminster, NJ.

Crucially, this indictment says nothing of what happened to these boxes after! The indictment ends there and moves to the charges!

There has to be more (at Bedminster). No chance the DOJ just forgot about those boxes!

This leads me to believe that this is only the first indictment. Let us not forget that the main focus of this investigation has been centered around the D.C. grand jury. That grand jury has met for 2 years. There absolutely has to be an indictment coming from them as well. Perhaps that will cover even more serious crimes? Perhaps there’s been a secret grand jury in Bedminster?

Idk but I’m here for the ride and I’m loving it

[u/ChinDeLonge → u/_PadfootAndProngs_]

I just commented on this to a parent comment before I saw yours. This makes me think he has a Grand Jury empaneled in NJ as well, which would track with the legal world’s assumptions for why this case is being brought in SDFL: the relevant crimes and witnesses are largely in that district. It would stand to reason that, given the fact that the boxes loaded onto his plane for the summer in NJ is never touched on again in this indictment, the relevant crimes and witnesses to any criminality surrounding his handling/procurement/display of classified documents in Bedminster would be in NJ — and therefore be a second case within a separate Grand Jury in SDNJ.

Edit: let’s not forget that this is the summer that Ivana passed, was reportedly cremated, and had more than an average amount of pallbearers struggling with her casket that was buried on his golf course. He also made the deal with the Saudis and LIV golf (which just made big news with their merger with PGA). This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[u/sunshineduckies → u/ChinDeLonge]

I’ve had a tinfoil hat on for LIV since the very beginning. Nobody can convince me it’s not involved, and oh how great timing the PGA deal was earlier this week…

[u/ComatoseCrypto → u/Eastcoastpal]

I’m waiting for the warrant. Was reading the indictment earlier and there was an excerpt around a text conversation where the family was preparing to travel to Bedminster and Nautu was specifically told the boxes would not fit on the plane as it would be occupied by luggage. One can probably assume as much for other venues he owns.

[u/dblan9]

If you want to have some fun on a Friday afternoon, head over to r/conservative and checkout the meltdown some are having with how bad this is for Trump.

[u/caserock → u/dblan9]

That damn Hillary is at it again 😭

[u/discgman → u/dblan9]

They are actually admitting he screwed up. What's is going on in this world?

[u/Solracziad → u/discgman]

Just wait a day or two for them to get their talking points to parrot to one another and things will be back to normal over there.

[u/oddmanout → u/discgman]

It's like 50/50. You can see the people who still have their heads up Trump's ass and the others who realize he's going to bring down the whole party if they don't suddenly start acting like they never liked him in the first place.

[u/Thatguysstories → u/oddmanout]

Some of them saying that Trump should fully endorse another R candidate on the condition they pardon him.

Like holy fuck guys.

You are openly stating you believe he is guilty enough to be convicted, and that Trump should bribe a Presidential candidate with his support for a pardon.

You want someone to become the elected President and return the bribe they received by pardoning a former President for mishandling documents related to the national defense and obstructing the investigation.

How fucking corrupt could you get and they are just openly saying this shit.

[u/ranchoparksteve]

We learned months ago that there were random personal items mixed in with the government documents. It makes sense that Donald was part of that sloppy effort.

[u/Naiehybfisn374 → u/ranchoparksteve]

One of the charges is related to his intent to conceal, the scheme "mix them in with personal effects" was likely deliberate.

[u/Drone314]

Just finished reading 49 pages - Dead. To. Fucking. Rights. Ladies and gentlemen....We got him.

[u/Michael_G_Bordin → u/Drone314]

We got him!

[u/polish_my_grappel → u/Michael_G_Bordin]

Of all the times for a writer's strike...

I need Colbert and Oliver to be covering this

[u/dynamic_anisotropy → u/Drone314]

Maximum penalty for his crimes as outlined in the indictment is 100 >390 years, baby!!

Should also add that Smith stated they would only need 21 days to try the case.

Edit: maximum penalty is significantly more, since each of the 31 counts related to possession of documents are applied separately.

[u/Naiehybfisn374]

Like most, I've grown kind of jaded to the idea that he'll actually face consequences but this does seem even worse than we thought it was and there's no possibility they don't have an absolute airtight case of which he has no credible defense.

I think he's actually fucked.

[u/SiWeyNoWay → u/Naiehybfisn374]

Those pictures …. With papers just scattered on the floor. JFC

[u/The_Pandalorian]

Man, it's a good thing that he didn't repeatedly make multiple public statements suggesting that there should be no quarter for illegally mishandling our country's secrets!

checks video

Oh...

Well, it's a good thing that he didn't change the laws, making it much worse to illegally mishandle our country's secrets?

checks laws Trump signed in 2018

Oh...

Well, it's a good thing that he hasn't been caught on audio admitting to knowing that he was illegally mishandling our country's secrets!

checks the charging documents against Trump

Oh...

[u/Illegal_Leopuurrred → u/The_Pandalorian]

The indictment specifically calls out all the times he said that shit.

[u/[deleted]]

Dear Trump supporters:

The indictment is only for documents which TRUMP specifically hid from the FBI. He would have been absolutely not charged, if he had just turned over everything he had, instead of lying to both his attorneys and the FBI.

But, do your best to say otherwise.

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000188-a12f-db74-ab98-b3ff4de50000

Edit: Not only am I old enough to remember when the GOP thought Bill Clinton lying about a BJ was enough to get impeached, I actually am old enough to have attended the hearings in person. So, pretty much time for some equity in terms of being charged for lying.

[u/edogg01 → u/[deleted]]

It's even worse than that. He was only charged for 31 counts for the docs out of the 100 that the FBI discovered. Because those 31 specifically dealt with national defense. If he even just gave back all the ones pertaining to national defense they might not have pressed charges at all.

[u/mrfishman3000]

But r/conservative will just say “he was joking” and it’s all ok. 🤣

[u/aelysium → u/[deleted]]

That’s literally what’s going to get him.

From what I’ve seen, they didn’t indict under the mishandling of classified documents statute, they did so under the Espionage Act which only relates to documents involving national defense.

That statute may even have given him an out (correctly returning the documents to an officer of the US government) but since he played fuck around and find out, he’s fucked around and now is gonna find out.

Prosecutors are likely gonna play out the appropriate portions of the statute, show the documents related to national defense, and then go through a timeline of all his fuckery trying to prevent recovery of the documents.

[u/Yukonhijack → u/aelysium]

The only way out for him is to get a plea deal at this point. No lawyer can reasonably argue that there is a viable defense here. When the feds show up at your door, you're fucked.

[u/aelysium → u/Yukonhijack]

I was right. They went 793(e) and not 1924 in the indictment.

The case is gonna be solid and outside of judge/jury fuckery I think he’s in trouble.

[u/SwagTwoButton]

I’d love to have an off the record conversation and get a genuine answer from trump on what his real plan was with these docs. I think it has to be one of three things:

1. He is in deep shit with debt and needed to sell these documents to pay off his debt.

2. He legitimately thought his supporters would be able to overthrow the government for him so he thought he needed the documents so he could act as president while he waited to get back in the white house.

3. He’s a dumbass and wanted to be able to stroke his ego by showing off confidential documents to his buddies at Mar a lago and genuinely thought he’d get away with it.

[u/gigadude → u/SwagTwoButton]

4. Putin asked nicely.

[u/mycruelid → u/SwagTwoButton]

Mostly #3, because that's exactly what he did.

But also, he kept documents related to people he liked and disliked. Some of the military documents were probably because he thought they could be used as graymail or to discredit General Milley.

I think it is likely that General Milley technically committed some kind of disloyalty or breach of his oath in order to protect the country and the world from reckless orders by Trump in the closing days of the administration. I think he's a patriot and a hero for having done so.

I also think that it's more than professionalism that's keeping Milley quiet. I think if he had to tell the whole story about his service as CJCS he would have to admit he gave orders to disobey the Commander in Chief.

[u/DJGlennW]

A paraphrase:

The mills of justice grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small.

[u/TorchedPyro88]

Don't get me wrong I believe he's guilty as sin but I can't imagine him packing and moving boxes on his own.

[u/orionsfyre → u/TorchedPyro88]

He didn't, he ordered his body man to do it. Trump hasn't lifted anything accept a sandwich to his fat orange jowly face in 30 years.

[u/dmanjrxx]

Wow! So much for the lackeys and spineless who ran to him after the indictment, claiming weaponization of DOJ and witch hunt without even seeing any evidence

[u/Jawn_F]

Was he personally involved with Jared getting 2 billion dollars from the saudis?

[u/swamphockey]

In 2016 Trump famouly declared: "I'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law"

[u/mycruelid → u/swamphockey]

DOJ literally cited that August 18, 2016 statement in the indictment on page 9, as part of their description of his knowledge of the principles and importance of protection of sensitive documents.

[u/Mr_28_Spaces]

Flight risk. No bail. Strip him of Secret Service protection and put him in general pop.

[u/[deleted]]

The indictment indicates that the prosecution believes the trial will take 21 days. Oh dear America, buckle up for three tough weeks.

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000188-a12f-db74-ab98-b3ff4de50000

[u/D16rida]

I wonder if Mar-a-Lago could be seized in a civil forfeiture

[u/AlasAnotherLurker]

The chandelier in the bathroom is crime enough.